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Jordan: If you live in a city, any city, you’ve been pissed at your public transit. That’s inevitable. No system that’s designed to move hundreds of thousands of people every single day is going to work perfectly for all of them. But there’s a difference between the usual breakdowns and annoyances, and delay is that every system deals with, and a systemic mistrust, a failure of communication between a transit system and its riders. And that, just in time for another fair increase, is what happened in Toronto this week. It was a relatively harmless spark that lit the fire, but the kindling had been there for years. An ugly relationship between the city and the province, the two bodies who control the TTC, an aging system badly in need of tens of millions of dollars in repairs, and an extensive public relations campaign that blamed riders for not paying their fares and promised strict enforcement. Amid all that, with resentment simmering one poor customer service representative answered a legitimate question from an angry TTC rider on Twitter, and now five days later, here we are, wondering where the relationship between the transit commission and its writers started to go off the rails, and if at this point it’s even possible to repair it. I’m Jordan Heath Rawlings, and this is The Big Story. Ben Spurr is the transportation reporter at the Toronto Star. He has the unenviable task of explaining the TTC to his city. Hi Ben.
Ben: Hi. Thanks for having me.
Jordan: No worries. Why don’t you start, uh, for the people outside Toronto who aren’t familiar with the TTC, just explain what Presto is and how it came to be, like, the only fare system here.
Ben: Presto is a little card, a little fare card that used to be green. Now they’re mostly black. Basically the TTC for a long, long time, longer than many other major transit agencies was running on tickets and tokens and cash, uh, which is a fairly inefficient way to run the system. They started to switch to a card model about a decade ago, uh, and the Ontario Liberal government of the day had their own card called Presto, which they basically forced on the TTC, said, you have to take this, uh, otherwise we’re gonna cut off a gas tax funding to the city, which would be a big problem for the TTC, uh, until the TTC accepted it. Um, and since then, it’s been the slowly phased in on the TTC as well as other GTA, Toronto area, transit agencies. Uh, and now it’s the primary way that people pay for transit, but because of some issues with the rollout and some difficulties, the TDC still is accepting tokens and tickets. They haven’t actually phased out the whole thing. So we’re actually sort of operating in a bit of a hybrid system at the moment.
Jordan: How has that rollout gone in general?
Ben: So there were some high profile problems, especially at the start of the rollout. Um, a lot of faulty card readers, uh, people going to tap their cards on, um, machines on buses and streetcars, um, and them not working well. To be fair, those have been addressed to some extent. The reliability of, of the most common machines has gone up, but some, um, machines related to Presto on street cars, for instance, they had to rip out because they weren’t working properly. So, uh, those were the kind of mistakes that kind of undermine the reputation of Presto. And I should be clear that one of the interesting things about this is a, it’s still owned by the province. The TTC is a, a system owned and operated by the city, and yet it’s this very strange thing where it doesn’t have actually complete control over its primary source of revenue. That’s controlled by the province and by the provincial transit agency, Metrolinx. So they have to work together to kind of sort things out when there are problems and they don’t always work so well together.
Jordan: Give me an example of the kind of friction that’s caused.
Ben: So just whenever there are overlapping jurisdictions, right between, uh, it, there’s questions about who’s responsible for things. So basically anything that when a, when a Presto reader goes down, there’s a confusion sometimes, or has been in the past, about whether it’s the TTC drivers’ responsibility to report that broken machine, or whether the Presto system should detect that broken machine and then it should get fixed. The, the kind of, um, uh, issue that I think kind of made people’s heads explode was that there is this, uh, there’s a machines on streetcars that take coins, uh, and you pay your fare that way. But, uh, these machines, according to an audit, were basically filling up with coins. It couldn’t accept any more coins. Uh, and no one, neither TTC or the vendor of the machine or Metrolinx, uh, was actually, uh, emptying them. So they would go for days and days and days riding on these street cars, uh, fill full of coins, and so riders couldn’t pay. Uh, and just that’s the kind of thing that riders look at and say, you know, you really need to get your act together.
Jordan: The reason we’re talking to you now is because this is all kind of come to a head over the past week. Why don’t you first start by explaining, I guess, what the TTC would say is the biggest problem that it faces.
Ben: So the biggest problem the TDC is facing is a very unsexy answer, but their problem is a lack of money to, to keep the system in a state of good repair. Uh, they have a huge backlog of unfunded repairs, something like $35 billion needed work over the system over the next 15 years, and only about maybe a third of that is funded. But that’s kind of a separate issue from all of this. The fare money doesn’t go to fix transit infrastructure. That’s a separate thing. But what has emerged as a problem is for years, the TTC kind of said that we don’t have a fare evasion problem. It’s about in line with other transit agencies, it’s maybe 2% it’s costing us maybe $10-$20 million. That sounds like a lot of money, but for an agency with a budget of $2 billion, it’s not that big. But back in February of last year, the city auditor general put out a report that said, you do have a big fair evasion problem. It’s costing you $60 million. The TTC put out another, um, its own report just recently that found it was even higher than that, maybe $70 million and all kinds of kind of rampant abuse, people using child Presto cards, which, uh, allowed you to ride the system for free. Adults can easily get ahold of them. So there’s, that’s going on a lot. Just hopping over fare gates, for instance, and just simply not paying on vehicles. Um, so they’ve started to kind of pay attention to that, right? That they, um, are, are hiring more fare evasion officers and kind of ramping up efforts to urge their riders to pay.
Jordan: Tell me about the posters that are everywhere in the city right now.
Ben: Yeah, so riders have started to see, as part of this kind of increased efforts, uh, the TTC’s launched this ad campaign just telling people to pay. It’s kind of trying to attack some of the, I guess, rationale that riders don’t pay the, you know, there’s signs that say, you know, having quotations like, it’s no big deal. And then you know, the TTC’s message is, well, it is a big deal and there’s no excuse to not pay your fare. And they warn of, uh, you know, the fine is up to $425 ended the TTC ad campaign even warns of facing criminal charges for fare evasion, which is an extremely rare thing. I’ve never really heard of that happening. But they’re sending the message that there’re like serious consequences for not paying your fare.
Jordan: And where does the enforcement come into this?
Ben: So they’ve started to hire more transit officers. Um, I can’t remember the exact number, but I think they’re ramping up to close to 200. And, uh, you’re starting to see them much more frequently on, uh, on transit vehicles, uh, people, uh, asking to check your fare. Uh, and that, of course has some concerns. Uh, people are always concerned of course, that whenever law enforcement or quasi-law enforcement officers have discretion over who they’re going to, you know, confront that they’re going to confront certain groups of people to start. There was a series of stories last year that showed that there’s some evidence that, um, black riders are stopped more frequently than, uh, or disproportionately frequently compared to other groups. Um, and we’ve seen actually cases of, uh, the TTC settled, uh allegations of racial profiling against it by a young rider who was a violently tackled, I think it’s fair to say, by three officers. So there’s been a lot of concerns over those kind of activities.
Jordan: So to put this in, I guess a little bit of context for listeners outside the city, no person in any city really loves their public transit, or at least everybody has complaints about it. How’s the relationship between the TTC and its riders right now, particularly this week?
Ben: I try not to write a lot of stories that, that just kind of focus on people being upset at the TTC. And the reason I do that, is just because they’re always people’s upset at the TTC, and sometimes they’re rightfully upset of the TTC. Sometimes they’re not rightfully upset at the TTC. You see people get really upset about a subway delay when someone has jumped on the tracks and in front of the subway train. I mean, that’s not, the TTC doesn’t want that.
Jordan: No, and people complain about public transit. Like that’s not the conversation that we’re having. There’s something bigger going on.
Ben: Yeah, and I just should preface it by and just add, that in some ways the TTC is actually very good system. There’s an extensive bus network that goes across the whole city that, um, that you can ride across the whole city for a single fare. That kind of thing is sort of not common in other, in other North American cities necessarily. But you are seeing, yeah, there’s kind of a baseline level of frustration, but why I wanted to write a story over the last couple of days about the relationship between the TTC and its riders is it does seem that this kind of social contract, I guess between riders and this public transit agency are starting to get a little frayed.And I think it centres on this a fair evasion campaigns to some extent because the message, whether the TTC intended this or not, but the, the messaging from that campaign, people are taking that as saying that we are the problem, that the TTC considers riders to be responsible for fare evasion. The TTC tells me that that’s not at all the intention. The TTC knows they have things to improve on and they’re working on those things, service and collecting fares properly and all those things, but riders are taking away the message, some of them at least, that they’re being scapegoated for, for the problems of the TTC. And that’s, uh, being told, you know, that you have to pay your $3.25 fare, when the fair keeps going up every single year. It’s gone up nine times since 2009. Um, the service isn’t always reliable and all these Presto problems that make it difficult to pay sometimes when you want to pay. I think there’s just, people are starting to feel that, uh, there’s some sense that the TTC needs to get its act in order before it tells its riders that they’re misbehaving.
Jordan: So tell me about what took place on social media this week, because this is one of those things that if there weren’t all these other factors already at play, probably would have been unnoticed.
Ben: Yeah. It was just the at would seem like a simple thing, which is that a rider was on a street car, the TTC has this policy that is actually a very good policy, most people consider, that you can take unlimited travel within two hours of the your first tap of your Presto card, so you can go wherever you want. Uh, and he was stopped on a, on a street car, uh, close to two hours after he’d been, uh, first tapped. And the officer told him, uh, that he had a few minutes left and the rider took that to mean that he would face a fine if he didn’t pay within an, uh, as soon as the two hour time limit expired. He tweeted his kind of confusion about that because he wasn’t so sure. And then the TTC did something that did not help themselves, where they kind of sent out a bunch of contradictory messages and said, some said, no, no, you don’t, you can finish your trip. Once the two hour window expires you don’t have to pay again. And another saying that, no, you do have to pay again to keep going at, which is incorrect. And so they, they finally corrected it uh, I think two days after the original incident. It took them awhile to actually make the final correction. And I think that infuriated a lot of people because it basically seemed to indicate that even though the TTC is spending a lot of energy trying to tell riders to obey the rules, the TTC is not even quite clear on what the rules are sometimes. Um, and I think that’s what caused a lot of this negative reaction.
Jordan: How sure can we be, in the wake of this, that the people who are out there and who have just beefed up their staff actually enforcing the rules live on the streetcars, are sure of how this policy works?
Ben: Ah, that’s a good question. The TTC said, uh, in the wake of this incident that they have sent out extensive messaging to their entire staff and to fair enforcement officers about what the rules are. Uh, so, um, hopefully there’s a bit more clarity there. But I think it’s one of those things that, uh, you know, only time will tell if people are actually understanding the rules on both sides of both the riders and, and, uh, officers know actually what the rules are.
Jordan: You know, you’ve described a few things about the TTC that are really good. The crazy extensive bus network that gets you anywhere. The two hour transfer window, which is a really nice thing to have for people making short trips. What is the problem in communication, or the block in communication that manages to have the TTC anger so many of its riders, while at the same time being like, look, compared to other transit networks, maybe not so bad?
Ben: Yeah. I think what’s, it’s interesting because historically the TTC was seen as not very communicative and kind of behind the times. Uh, and that changed when Andy Byford became the CEO of the TTC. Um, and was, he took a very, um, I guess you’d say, public-facing approach, very visible approach to communicating. And a lot of people appreciate that. And it was kind of extraordinary to see because you know, the service didn’t necessarily improve overnight or anything like that. Although the service, TTC would say they’ve made improvements there, but just having someone come out and say, Hey, we screwed up. We understand. We know this is really frustrating. I’m frustrated with it too. We’re all working to get better. Really seemed to calm people down to some extent. And Andy Byford left, uh, I guess it was maybe two years ago now, we’re coming up on that, to go down to New York. He’s replaced by someone who’s very respected at the TTC, Rick Leary, who’s the new CEO, he’s well regarded by everyone I talked to at the agency pretty much. But he will openly say that he’s not as talkative, as communicative as Andy was. Takes a bit more of a behind the scenes role, which he says lets him focus on improving service, and he’s really proud about the service improvements that he’s made, especially to the Boston streetcar network. But that element of communication I think is a little less prominent now and I think there is a perception that perhaps the communication and the reputation of the TTC has maybe started to slide back to, to what it was, this perception that it’s this kind of monolithic bureaucratic thing that doesn’t necessarily pay attention to what its riders want.
Jordan: How much of this is tied up in politics at a higher level? You know, you mentioned that the city is running the transit system, the province is running the payment system. What’s missing there?
Ben: Yeah, I mean, I think that that’s also a thing to keep in mind that when people focus their anger on the TTC, um, I think it’s important too, to understand that the TTC is funded by the city government primarily. And it’s the people at city council and the mayor who decided how much money they get every year. Um, so when things are unfunded and when things break down, I mean, that’s not necessarily the TTCs fault. They want as much funding as they could get, obviously. So on this issue, I think one of the reasons you’re seeing a big emphasis on fare evasion is that the TTC, if they’re going to the city every year and saying, we need more money to run our services, if there’s a report, which there now is saying, you’re losing $70 million every year cause you’re not collecting fares properly, it makes it harder to make your case to the city that you’re keeping, you know, you’re, you’re a responsible steward of the public funds and everything. Uh, so I think that’s one aspect of the problem or one contributing factors to why they’re focusing on fare evasion. But then again, as I say, Metrolinx which owns Presto, has to work with the TTC on these fare issues, and they’re not always on the same page at all. Uh, they’re, right now, in arbitration, actually, over whether or not Metrolinx has lived up to the Presto contract. The TTC says, look, you promised to do all these things, uh, one of them being open payment, allowing people to tap their credit card or debit card on a fare machine, which a lot of people would love. Uh, Metrolinx has not yet done that. And TTC is saying, you promised to do that in the contract. So there’s behind the scenes squabbling. There’s even crazy stories I found just amazing that Metrolinkx, for a little while through Presto, was taking money out of the TTC’s bank account, like millions and millions of dollars that they said they were owed. And the TTC said, no, we don’t owe you that money at all. But the provincial agency is bigger than the city agency. So they just were able to do that. So they’re not always on the same page and cooperating and then that does make it difficult, I think, to sort out some of these fare issues. For instance, um, the TTC’s asked the Metrolinx to sort out, to help sort out this issue with child cards. Child cards look exactly like adult Presto cards, and they’re being sold through a Metrolinx contract that Shoppers Drug Mart, uh, where you have a Shopper’s employee giving them out to two people who come in and, you know, were protecting the TTCs fair rules is on the list of a Shopper’s Drug Mart employee, I think, is fairly low, so…
Jordan: How does that happen? Because I’m not, I’m a podcast host. It seems like a bad idea from the very beginning to do that.
Ben: And who exactly was responsible for all that? It would take some untangling. But Metrolinx decided to sell the Presto cards through this contract with Shoppers. No one seems to have taken into account this prospect of abuse. Adding to the complications of the mayor of Toronto, John Tory was the one who introduced the kids ride free policy. Before kids actually had to pay. He touts that policy as this major benefit, which a lot of people think it is. But you can see how maybe a problem with that policy might be overlooked potentially. If the mayor has championed it so hard, you might want to find a way to get that in place no matter what kind of thing.
Jordan: How much do writers, the ones that express frustration on social media, understand about all the kind of strange underlying issues you’ve just explained to me, and how much of it is just raw frustration? And does it matter even if there’s a difference between the two?
Ben: It could be just the bubble that I live in, but I do think that a lot of trans writers do seem fairly literate about a lot of these issues. I think people do understand that it’s an an underfunded system, that’s something you hear a lot I think from even a lot of regular riders that they know that the city is not funding this to those same levels that other transit systems are funded across North America. But I think there’s, of course, transit’s such a personal thing, right? It’s like how you spend a good chunk of your day. And I think a lot of the frustration, just encountering delays and problems and being threatened with $400 fines for not paying a $3 fare. I, that– just all is visceral stuff. And I think even if you know that they’re complicated systemic issues behind it, you may not be so sympathetic to that when you’re the one who’s having to deal with it on a daily basis.
Jordan: Do you get the sense that there’s anything coming down the pipe, either in terms of a new PR strategy or just in terms of material improvements that will help fix this?
Ben: I’m not sure. I don’t know how the TTC is feeling about all these recent developments, if it might take a different approach to its communications. They say that they’re working with Metrolinx to kind of sort out all these fare problems, but it’s been protracted with Presto. There’s no hard end date right now for when they’re going to stop accepting tokens and tickets. Um, that was something they wanted to do a while ago that’s been delayed a couple of times. So on the fare collection issue, I think there are a lot of details to be sorted out and we’re hoping that the two levels of government can come together and do that.
Jordan: Are there any big picture initiatives for the TTC coming that might shine this up a little bit?
Ben: I think it’s fair to say that the TTC has gone out and advocated for more funding on, again, not on the operation side, but on the backend side, the keeping its assets in a state of good health and all that kind of thing. Uh, so you hope that maybe this sort of state of, uh, you know, slow decay of the, our aging system might might be addressed a little bit and it might slow down and we might see reliability improvements here and there, but those are kind of small wins and not always wins. It’s an aging system that’s on the whole, just kind of less reliable. We’re hoping, of course, that new transit gets built new public transit lines, which is a whole other podcast.
Jordan: How realistic is that hope?
Ben: Uh, stuff is coming. Uh, there’ll be the Eglinton Crosstown is going to open up.
Jordan: That’s the Toronto transit motto, by the way. Stuff is coming.
Ben: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Eglinton Crosstown, has been delayed again, but it’s supposedly going to open at some point in 2022 now. Not that far away. That will open up. I’m confident that that will open. I mean, it’s under construction, heavy construction. Um, so that’s going to happen. There’s been improvements to Go service recently. You know, lines like the Spadina subway extension to the extent that that’s well traveled is new. So, you know, there, there are new streetcars. Those, when they work are, are good. I’ve written some stories about how perhaps they’re not as reliable as we’d hope, but so there are kind of small, small gains here and there, but yeah, I don’t, I don’t know that we’re going to reach a place where everyone is 100% happy about the state of the Toronto transit system anytime soon.
Jordan: Thanks, Ben.
Ben: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Jordan: Ben Spurr is the transportation reporter at the Toronto Star. And that was The Big Story. We arrive every morning on time, no delays in your favourite podcast player. You can also find us at thebigstorypodcast.ca or on Twitter at @thebigstoryFPN. You can find us and all the other Frequency pods at frequencypodcasynetwork.com or at @frequencypods on Facebook, on Twitter, or on Instagram, if you are on the ‘gram. That is what they say, right? You can find us in your favourite podcast player too, Apple, Google, Stitcher, Spotify. Doesn’t matter. If it lets you rate us, give us five stars, leave a review. We read every single one, even the bad ones. Claire Brassard is the lead producer of The Big Story. Ryan Clarke and Stefanie Phillips are our associate producers, Annalise Nielsen is our digital editor, and I am Jordan Heath Rawlings. Thanks for listening. Have a great weekend. We’ll talk Monday.
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