Roxham Road, bodies near the border and the future of Canada-US migration

CLIP You’re listening to a frequency podcast network production in association with City News.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings For years, and for better or for worse, Canada had an official unofficial border crossing known simply as Roxham Road. It was a strip of land in Quebec where tens of thousands of migrants would cross into Canada from the United States every year, and then claim asylum thanks to a loophole and a pact between Canada and the called the Safe Third Country Agreement. But a couple of weeks ago that loophole closed and so did Roxham Road.

CLIP As from today, migrants arriving at a popular unofficial gateway to Central Canada are now being turned away. Roxham Road on the Quebec New York border, officially closed to asylum seekers as of midnight eastern time.

CLIP If you’re crossing here, you will be arrested.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings At the moment, nobody is crossing at Roxham, are they crossing anywhere else? We don’t know because it’s a long, long border and we don’t have eyes everywhere. But people do try to cross the US Canada border at unseen lonely spots, and sometimes when they do, the result is tragic. Eight bodies of two migrant families have been found in the St. Lawrence River near here in Akwesasne on the Canadian. Border including an infant. Any child under the age of three police say the victims were all trying to enter the United States illegally from Canada. These families were headed from Canada to America. But the traffic goes both ways. The question now is, without the some crossing, will we see more of these attempts and will traffickers begin to prey on people trying to make it a cross? Possible. What changed in the past few months for Canada and the US to alter this deal? What role did rising anti-migrant and pro border security tensions play? Was there a better way to do this and to follow up to that better? For who exactly. I am Jordan Heath-Rawlings. This is the big story. Nicholas Keung is the Toronto Stars immigration reporter. He has for years followed the saga of Roxanne Road and, uh, now there’s a tragedy to follow as well, Nick.

Nicholas Keung Yeah. It’s, uh, sort of expected, you know?

Jordan Heath-Rawlings Mm-hmm.

Nicholas Keung According to a lot of advocates ex, you know, that’s what they expected to happen. It’s predictable.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings Before we talk about what happened, tell me a little bit about what we know about the people who died. I know you reported on, uh, Florin Iordache, if I’m saying his name correctly, and his family, but there’s, there’s another family too. Who were these people?

Nicholas Keung The bodies of eight migrants actually were recovered, uh, have been recovered so far. We’re still looking for the boat operator, um, to track him down, uh, right now. So the, the eight bodies come from two families, one from, uh, Romania origin, and the other is from India. As far as we know. The, um, Romanian couple, they were failed asylum seekers, and, uh, they also had two Canadian born children. One was three years old, a daughter, and the other is, uh, two years old. Uh, boy. The other family is a, um, a family from India. Four with a son and a daughter, and they came to Canada from Punjab, um, on a visitor visa.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings And I know we might not know exactly what happened to them yet, but like you’ve covered this kind of stuff. Can you explain kind of the plausible scenarios for, for what might have happened here?

Nicholas Keung Mm-hmm. It appears to me that, you know, uh, at least for the Romanian family, they arrived legally. They sought asylum. They, uh, failed their refugee claim. They, they tried to get into the US and then got de deported and they returned to Canada again. So, uh, I, I don’t think in that case, you know, there’s any, um, human traffickers or smugglers involved in their case, but, you know, I say, based on the information we’ve seen so far, you know, for the Indian family, because you know, I’m sure you’re aware of again, another Indian family that, you know, uh, actually, uh, tragically died.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings Mm-hmm.

Nicholas Keung You know, while trying to cross into the, the, the US and there’s, uh, um, another woman again, uh, trying to cross from Quebec, the same thing. It’s appears like usually in those circumstances there’s some sort of, you know, uh, criminal activities, uh, involved and I would not be surprised.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings So this tragedy, which as you point out is, is not the first and, uh, probably won’t be the last. Comes amid a renewed focus on migrants and asylum claims, and particularly focused around Roxham Road. Now, maybe before we get into what’s changed there Hmm. Um, can you quickly explain kind of how Roxham Road became a symbol for, uh, the migrant border crisis in Canada?

Nicholas Keung Sure. Um, I think the story, you know, goes back to 2004 when the American and Canadian government actually. Deal called Safeguard Country Agreement. What it did when someone tried to cross into Canada from the us, they were supposed to first seek asylum in the US because it’s considered a safe country for migrants, for asylum seekers and Canada. You know, if they arrive at the Canadian official border, they would be sent back to the us. To continue to seek asylum there and vice versa. But what was interesting at the time, uh, when the, the, the, the rules were implemented that. Treaty only applied at the, the official port of entry.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings Mm-hmm.

Nicholas Keung As you know, the US and Canada shared, you know, uh, have a shared lead border, you know, that’s 9,000 kilometers. So I think, you know, the officials knew it’s impossible to, you know, enforce the ruse. And that’s why, you know, if you cross between official parts of entry, you know they would let you in and you can proceed with your, uh, asylum process. Right. So now, you know, uh, fast track to 2016, 2017, Donald Trump was elected and he introduced, you know, a bunch of anti. Refugees, anti-immigrants, uh, policies. So we started to see a surge of irregular migrants crossing, uh, into Canada in 2017. It only, you know, sort of like, uh, trickle in, you know, uh, uh, declined, you know, during the pandemic, right? But, What was interesting was, you know, um, Canadian officials actually, they were aware of, you know, the potential risks and dangers in the wild, you know, at, at the border between, uh, the, the two countries.So they had this very well organized and structured, uh, protocols set up at Roxham Road in Quebec. Not to, to welcome, I don’t think that’s the right word, but to process these irregular migrants mm-hmm. To make sure there’s an orderly, uh, and organized way for. To, in a way to break the law. Right? It’s an official, the official unofficial border crossing Exactly.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings Fast track to what happened. Uh, in March during the visit of President Biden in Canada, he and, uh, our prime minister actually announced an update to, uh, the, the, the treaty. And so now, All the restrictions would apply across the entire border, meaning that, you know, whether you cross from Roxham Road or from Emerson in Manitoba, or you know, in a, a national park, uh, somewhere in BC you will still be sent back unless you meet some, uh, exemptions, you know, uh, granted under the, the agreement. And that kicked in basically immediately. Right. So what’s the situation right now at Roxham Road? What happens when people show up?

Nicholas Keung You know, being someone who has been following Roxham Road and the Safe Third Country Agreement for many years, you know, I, I was caught off guard that, you know, with the changes that they brought in overnight. And so were, uh, a lot of the advocates. No one really expected that coming, um, within 24 hours. Yeah. So immediately, you know, uh, at 1201, I believe it was, um, March 25th when, um, the new regulations, uh, kicked in, the migrants arriving at Rham Road, they, they were turned back right away. And, uh, according to some of the reporting I’ve seen, uh, they were trying to dash. Through the, you know, border entry into Canada before 1201 oh man. But a lot of them actually, uh, got stuck now. Uh, um, you know, at least in the initial days, they were stuck at a gas station, uh, near that, uh, border crossing. Tried to figure out what to do, what options are available. They caught a lot of people off guard, including the, the migrant c.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings What could have been done, uh, aside from, you know, sign the deal 1201, let’s go to make sure that it didn’t turn into this kind of like, is there a better, was there a better way to implement this?

Nicholas Keung It depends on, you know, when you say a better way, a better way for Washington and Ottawa or a better way for the migrants. Right?

Jordan Heath-Rawlings Yeah. Fair.

Nicholas Keung And I think, you know, from the policymaker’s perspectives, you know, I can appreciate. They gave no, you know, uh, uh, grace period, right. For the implementation, because they don’t want people to rush, you know, through the border and we’ll see another, you know, surge over weeks or days right before the implementation of the new law. Right. And from the migrants perspective and or, or from the, the advocates perspectives. You know, I think their position has always been the root cause of the irregular migration. From the States to Canada. It’s because potential asylum seekers could not have crossed at an official court of entry, right? So probably the safest way for them to cross through would be as Roxanne Road when you have all the potential migrants trying to enter through that one border crossing. You can see how it overwhelmed, you know, the enforcement officials. It overwhelmed, you know, people from, uh, the border guards to RCMP. Community social services, uh, in Quebec. And I think, you know, from the advocate’s perspective, their argument is if you allow potential asylum seekers to cross and make a claim at an official port of entry, whether is, you know, louiston, you know, the, the rainbow breach, you know, Fort Erie mm-hmm. You can spread out the traffic across the entire border rather than have everyone coming in all into que. At at once.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings So what happens now, um, without this sort of, uh, official unofficial point of entry, are we just gonna see fewer migrants? It, it seems to me like people are not just gonna stop trying to cross into Canada.

Nicholas Keung I think immediately, you know, uh, for sure we’ll see fewer irregular migrants crossing. You know, we have our heard, you know, Trudeau saying we welcome refugees. Right? That rhetoric after the liberals were elected in 20 15, 20 16. Mm-hmm. So I think the change of tone is important. Uh, it sent a very, um, uh, important political message. To potential asylum seekers that, hey, the door is closed now for irregular migrants. And also I think it would take a little bit of time for people to figure out options, right? If they still intend to, to come to Canada for asylum, they may try to seek help from, uh, criminal groups, you know, to sneak into Canada. Mm-hmm. But I think overall, you know, it. I think potential migrants, uh, irregular migrants would give a second thought, you know, uh, and try to weigh in like how much more risk I’m willing to take for the sake of getting protection and safety in Canada. Like if, if the price is really too high to pay, maybe that would deter people from coming. But I don’t think, you know, the issue of irregular migrants is going to go. At all. Do we know what changed politically, uh, for this deal to happen and for this to be closed? As you mentioned, the Trudeau government was saying that we welcome refugees.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings Um, were they saying that because it was the US that wouldn’t, uh, change the policy? Like who, who gave up or gave in here?

Nicholas Keung Anecdotally, also I think, you know, we’ve seen some statistics that when the Safeguard country agreement was initially implemented, the annual number of irregular migrants crossing into the US from Canada was around 200.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings Mm-hmm.

Nicholas Keung And the northbound traffic from US to Canada was, you know, over 10,000.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings Wow.

Nicholas Keung So I think the impression was, you know, Canada had more to gain from this deal by turning back those 10,000 potential asylum seekers back to the us.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings Mm-hmm.

Nicholas Keung So I think this time A around, you know, um, The White House was under a lot of pressure, you know, at their southern border. Um, you know, with refugees arriving at, you know, at the Mexican, uh, US border down south, we have a Democratic, uh, president and it’s under a lot of pressure from, uh, the Republicans, you know, for its perceived weak border enforcement. So I think, you know, for, for the Biden administration, you know, the. Any announcement about, you know, uh, making the, uh, safer country agreement tougher would help the administration politically. To, to shut up, you know, the Republican, uh, critics. Right. And for Canada, you know, I think, you know, The todo government has been under a lot of pressure from the provinces, from the opposition federal parties as well, you know, uh, with the search of irregular migrants, you know, they won’t, they don’t want to appear to be weak on law enforcement. So, in a way, you know, um, I guess, you know, we could say, you know, um, We were not surprised by the announcement as well because both governments actually, you know, could store some political points, um, from up updating the Safe third country agreement.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings The last thing I want to ask is just to bring it back to the two families that we found dead, and you touched on this a little bit, but in terms of what happens now, you know, are advocates on both sides of the border preparing to see more of these kinds of crossings, and I guess, Should we be doing more to be more aware of these irregular crossings?

Nicholas Keung Um, good question. I think one of the, the big question mark, a lot of people had, you know, uh, initially after the, um, the recent announcement was, how is it going to be enforced, whether it’s technology or, you know, deployment of more. Border guards, um, across the border, uh, how it’s going to be accomplished in terms of like whether we are expecting, you know, uh, more irregular migrants to to cover, I think they are going to become more difficult to be detected. Right. By the way, there’s also one, uh, provision within the new, uh, safeguard country agreement that, you know, those who actually manage to. Into Canada without being or, or in the US without being detected. Within 14 days, they could be given access to asylum. That provision is very important because advocates have, they have been arguing that, you know, that would make their lives more vulnerable because, If they cross, you know, with the help of, uh, smugglers, that means that they would be trapped, you know, at least for another two weeks, right? In order to be safe, to come out to make an asylum claim just out of fear. They would, they could potentially continue to live underground. So that’s, you know, one thing that I think we need to watch, whether, you know, it could potentially lead to an increase in the undocumented population, uh, especially here in Canada.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings One last thing really quick cuz I wanna pick your brain because, you know, um, this beat better than anyone. We talked a little while ago, uh, before the Roxham Road thing happened. You and I chatted about, uh, a new, new legislation in the UK that was anti-migrant. We talked about the pressure to close Roxham Road. Um, now, now we’re seeing what’s happened. What’s your sense of where the political will is going on this issue?

Nicholas Keung I think there, political will from, most states to do something, but I think it’s a matter of whether they have the capacity or whether they consider they have the capacity to do that. You know, at the end of the day, it’s all political, right? All government policies are political, whether, you know, they want to appear to be, you know, uh, Tough on crime, you know, for them they try to frame this issue as a national security issue rather than as a humanitarian issues. But the global displacement population is at an all time high, historically, right now.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings Mm-hmm.

Nicholas Keung Uh, with climate change, with wars. So that’s not going to go away. And what we are seeing in recent years is every, almost all states actually closing their border and asked for more organiz. Structured migration path. You know, for example, here in Canada, they wanted to have the ability to pick refugees from overseas. Right? Whether it is based on their skills, whether they’re persecuted, a a, a specific belong to a specific persecuted group like L G B T Q, uh, for example, right? Right. They want to have control, I think at the end of the day is. Having that sense of control of our borders. Uh, that’s, you know, pre preoccupying government, you know, officials. And sometimes in that process, you know, we may forget about, you know, that, uh, global, universal humanities, right? That, that we need more in this world today.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings Nick, thank you so much for this. Thank you for all your work in this space. Really appreciate the time.

Nicholas Keung Thanks for having me, Jordan.

Jordan Heath-Rawlings Nicholas Keung immigration reporter for the Toronto Star. That was the big story. If you’d like more, you can find the mat, the big story podcast.ca. Or of course, in any podcast player you might prefer, you can also get in touch with us to let us know what you think, what we should cover, how you’re feeling on any given day, whatever’s on your mind. We are on Twitter at the big story, fp n. We are available by email. Hello at the Big story podcast.ca. And we take voicemail. If you feel like leaving one, just call 4 1 6 9 3 5 5 9 3 5. Thanks for listening. I’m Jordan Heath Rawlings. It’s a long weekend coming up, but we’ve got a special nice I promise episode for you when we talk tomorrow.