Jordan: want you to think of your worst, most beat up piece of clothing, the one that’s coming apart at the seams, the one that’s missing a button, the one maybe you just threw out because it was unwearable. Okay. Now think of your best one. The piece of clothing you always feel good in, that not only feels great, but looks great.
The one that takes a beating and comes out of the wash just ready to roll every week. Now, which one of those items of clothing is older? Doesn’t it seem a little strange that some of the very best clothes we own were purchased years before some of the worst? But also, it feels right, doesn’t it, after all?
That’s why we have the phrase, They don’t make them like they used to. And as you will hear today, when it comes to the clothes we wear, and I’m not talking just vast fashion here, but some expensive clothes by trusted brands, that phrase has never been more true.
I’m Jordan Heath Rawlings. This is The Big Story. Monica Warzecha is the digital editor at The Walrus, where she also investigated the decades long decline. In fashion quality. Hello, Monica.
Monika Warzecha: Hello, how are you?
Jordan: I’m doing very well. Thank you for finding a few minutes for us.
Monika Warzecha: No problem.
Jordan: I will start by asking you this.
I think a lot of people know it’s big, huge, whatever, but can you give us a sense of the size and scale of the fast fashion industry?
Monika Warzecha: Sure. So the fashion industry itself is absolutely massive. Some estimates put it into trillions of dollars, while fast fashion itself is more around a hundred billion dollars.
And since about the year 2000, the production of clothing has doubled. Uh, and it’s partly because these companies have become really adept at creating massive volumes of clothes for cheap on much, much faster timelines. So, you know, traditionally you might buy back to school clothes in fall and then go shopping again in the spring, kind of like a seasonal, Wardrobe.
Now we’re seeing a much different scale where there are all these micro seasons. So some fast fashion companies can put out clothes every two weeks or weekly with micro seasons. And even more recently, we have ultra fast fashion, uh, which really took off during COVID lockdowns because a lot of these companies don’t have, uh, brick and mortar stores and they ship clothes directly to shoppers.
And so some of them like Sheen are putting out thousands of new clothes every single day.
Jordan: Right.
Monika Warzecha: And that company has just really exploded over the last few years. And it’s currently on track to hit something like 60 billion us in 2025, which is like double its revenue from 2022. So massive, massive, quick expansion.
Jordan: What do we know about the clothes that Fast Fashion produces? I guess anecdotally because everybody has it, but also just empirically because these clothes have been studied, right?
Monika Warzecha: Yeah, I think there’s been some interest in trying to figure out exactly how big it is and how they’re producing clothes.
And you know, a lot of these are private companies, so they’re not really releasing a ton of information themselves.
Jordan: Mm hmm.
Monika Warzecha: But we do know that a lot of stuff is being made. So there’s uh, Sheng Liu, a professor at the University of Delaware, and he kind of pinpointed just how many website offerings a lot of these fast fashion companies have.
In 2021, Zara offered something like 50, 000 new stock keeping units or individual styles on its website, while H& M offered something like 25, 000. And a company like Zara, which is often kind of held up as the pioneer of this sort of fast fashion model, they’re able to go from the design of a garment to the sales floor in a matter of weeks.
The confusing thing for someone like you and I, where we might go into a store, a fast fashion store, and it can feel a bit like a gamble, like you might have something that lasts for years and is totally fine. And another item might last a couple of washes, and you feel a bit. ripped off.
Jordan: Right.
Monika Warzecha: Often these things are on different timelines, so one designer told the correspondent, a magazine, and they said this anonymously, that clothes are on different timelines, and so something might be on the more traditional, seasonal, slower timeline, while a piece that needs to be, you know, out in stores really quickly might skip, let’s say, a fitting of the garment so that the company can just put it out faster.
Jordan: And what do we know about the kind of products these clothes are made with and how that impacts, um, how long they last, how good they feel, et cetera? Because I know, uh, there’s been analysis done on this, right?
Monika Warzecha: Yeah, I think we’re quite right. Kind of seeing synthetics in everything, whether you are shopping with fast fashion or, you know, even high end items have a fair amount of synthetic content.
Polyester is a big one. And I guess the interesting thing about polyester is that it was kind of this magic fiber when it was first kind of produced large scale. It didn’t need ironing, you know, it was able to hold colors. But I think over the years too we’ve seen different grades and different blends of polyester or other synthetics and that can make them a bit more prone to breakage when you like snag a shirt on on something the fibers might break and it’s a bit harder to repair so like if you have a 100 percent wool sweater and it gets kind of fuzzy you can buy a little sweater shaver and kind of remove the pilling but sometimes with the the polyester or the polyester blends, uh, it can be a bit more difficult to maintain that product.
Another thing that adds confusion is, you know, sometimes There are different grades, so I have a skirt from my mother that she wore, that my sister wore, and another cousin wore, it’s gone through a lot of women and a lot of wears, but it’s made of polyester and it’s lasted, so it can kind of feel difficult to, I guess, make sweeping generalizations, but generally speaking, the stuff coming out with fast fashion and ultra fast fashion is.
heavily reliant on on synthetics.
Jordan: You also looked a little bit at what we’re seeing in some of the mid market shops that you would usually associate with buying clothes that are going to become like a permanent part of your wardrobe, right?
Monika Warzecha: Yeah, it’s interesting because I think the mid market has just felt a lot of pressure with the rise of fast fashion.
And ultra fast fashion, cheap is always seductive. And even in the seventies, you had manufacturers saying like, you know, if you can make a cheaper dress, you’ll do it. Cause it’ll help with your bottom line. You’ll, you’ll have more customers. I guess there’s been a bit of a race to the bottom when it comes to pricing.
And with fast fashion, and ultra fast fashion that can really crowd out the middle market. And at the same time, the middle market kind of struggled during COVID, especially, you know, people were in lockdowns and a lot of the ultra fast fashion companies were able to get clothes to consumers more quickly and easily because they didn’t really have.
that kind of like presence in the, in the storefronts or in the malls. The other thing with the mid market stores is that, you know, we’ve seen department stores struggle quite a bit over the last several decades now. And it was interesting talking to the women behind the Toronto based label Comrax, which came out in 1983 and they got their start selling their label to small boutiques within the city of Toronto, but also the larger department stores like Simpsons, you know, Simpsons doesn’t really exist anymore.
Uh, the Bay,
Jordan: the Bay barely exists anymore.
Monika Warzecha: Yeah. The Bay is struggling. So I think even just the retail landscape for the more independent mid market shops is a lot more competitive and, and everyone kind of wants. To get a deal, right? So that can be a struggle. Then there’s private equity.
Jordan: I think everybody’s kind of familiar with the idea of, uh, what private equity does when it gains control of one of these more traditional brands.
Is that what we’re looking at here?
Monika Warzecha: Yeah. So we’ve also seen private equity getting involved. In retail, these companies are often kind of looking for a shorter turnaround in terms of their investments, and they’ve been criticized for focusing more on turning a quick profit rather than building up a brand long term.
And so there’s a lot of frustration with consumers if they see their favorite store acquired by a private equity group and then that company might get saddled with debt and there’s pressure to cut costs and then some customers feel sort of left out of that process and feel like they’re getting a shoddier product but at the same time like that Can also help a brand expand.
So I think often what’s held up as a success story is Canada Goose, which I believe had private equity investment and has managed to expand its focus.
Jordan: When you add up all these factors we’re talking about from fast and ultra fast to the pressure on mid markets and acquisitions and that, what do we know just in general about how long our clothes are lasting on average these days?
Monika Warzecha: A lot of that, I guess, depends on how frequently you’re wearing them and how, you know, what they’re made of and a lot of different factors, like whether you are putting them in a dryer or hanging to dry. But one of them, the statistics that I keep thinking about is one report says that we’re wearing a piece of clothing for only 7 to 10 times before tossing it.
And it’s hard to say whether that’s directly or indirectly. quality based or whether it’s just this sort of amped up trend cycle that we’ve also seen.
Jordan: Right. It’s us too, right?
Monika Warzecha: It’s us too. Uh, especially with fast fashion and there’s new clothes coming out every day or every few weeks. And so people might be motivated to just get rid of something, especially with a cheaper, newer, trendier alternative.
Basically the amount we wear a piece of clothing has declined by more than 35 percent in the last 15 years.
Jordan: You also looked at the history of this a little bit. Um, where did some of our clothes, at least, used to come from in Canada? And, and back when that was happening, what was our historical role in the clothes Canadians wore?
Monika Warzecha: So on a personal level, my grandmother worked in the garment industry in Toronto, and she moved here with my mother in about the late 60s, the sort of 70s to 90s has been called the golden era of Toronto fashion.
We had a huge, huge garment industry here, and it’s, you know, It’s kind of gone. And it sort of disappeared with free trade and globalization. Other parts of central Canada also made a ton of clothes. Montreal, I think Montreal even eclipses Toronto, or used to. At least different parts of the country may have had different specialties.
So Alberta and Manitoba were known for their denim. specifically. I think sometimes we forget just how, how much that was just part of life. You bought a sweater or a skirt and it could have been made in a factory in your own city. You could have been sitting on the bus across from someone who made your, your pants or your, your jacket.
Jordan: And I realize here I could be talking about a lot of products beyond clothing, but when and how did that change for Canada’s clothing manufacturers at least?
Monika Warzecha: In about the 70s, Canada signed on to something called the Multifiber Arrangement. It was like a global trade agreement, and in Canada it sort of limited the amount of imports that were coming into the country from places with lower wages.
And so it was kind of a protection for the garment industry here. But over time, a lot of countries were frustrated with the agreement. Some argue it kind of created this sort of black market for imports or that it was treating specific countries unfairly. And then you kind of see free trade take over.
And by around 1995, The countries involved in that agreement decided to let it lapse and have this sort of 10 year phase out. So that really started to hit local companies here hard, uh, especially in the early aughts when the sort of arrangement was essentially finished. And then there was a bit of a race among a lot of companies to sort of move production to countries where it was cheaper to make things.
Went hand in hand too with some of the, the quality issues we’re seeing because it’s also around this time that you’re seeing, uh, fast fashion sort of really start to take root.
Jordan: We’ve talked about the fabrics that are used and, you know, how quickly they’re made and how much of it there is. What role does the how play in all this?
Monika Warzecha: Technology is such a fascinating part of it. I mean, technology is at the root of so much clothing production, whether it’s, you know, the industrial revolution to even changes in the 70s with like double knit and, and the sort of technology. being used to sort of make the process more efficient. There’s a historian that calls fabric the first technology because we were making it before we were making things like metal.
And I think the online world, both with social media and the rise of fashion influencers and things like that, has really kind of amped up that trend cycle where You’re kind of feeling the the social pressure to to maybe buy something new or you see something you like. And I think the other aspect of online shopping that’s really fascinating to me is what researchers have called dark patterns.
So there’s a way in which retail sites, whether they’re fashion or otherwise, can kind of nudge us and manipulate us a bit into buying things we might not have fully intended to. So one of those things is called social proof. So sometimes you’re on a website and then you get this little pop up that says, Jordan just bought this in Calgary.
And then you’re like, Oh,
Jordan: Oh,
Monika Warzecha: Oh, interesting. And sometimes like, that’s, that’s not actually true. Like there’s just something in their back end that shows these pop ups. And then I think too, like anytime you buy something in person or online, they ask for your email and then it just feels like, Oh, is the gap stalking me?
I swear. I give them, I get an email from them. once a day, telling me about this sale and I have to act now. And so they create the sense of like urgency and scarcity. And I basically have an email address with a mildly embarrassing name that I started when I was 15. And it’s kind of become what people call, you know, the retail email.
So all that sort of junk just goes there. Don’t look at it. I’m not wading through all the sales information when I’m trying to like, connect with a friend or a co worker. All of that, that junky kind of act now, 30 percent off, don’t miss it type stuff that really encourages us to buy stuff that we can’t actually physically touch or try on that can kind of start to add up.
So for me, I’ve, I’ve tried to shop online a lot because I just find something that I might. look at for two seconds in a store and be like, eh, you know, it’s already pilling on the, the hanger.
Jordan: Right.
Monika Warzecha: Sometimes you get it and you almost convince yourself you like it to avoid standing in line at the post office to return it.
Jordan: And that gets at the last thing I want to talk about, which is what we can do about this. You mentioned shopping online less. I also think that It’s tough to also just say, like, go out and try everything on, because as you mentioned, you know, there’s fewer and fewer retail stores and, you know, it’s also easy to say, like, well, buy quality products, but we’re in the middle of an affordability crisis, too, and you still need to dress yourself.
So how do you navigate the world where the cheap stuff won’t last and the expensive stuff is harder than ever to find and afford?
Monika Warzecha: I think secondhand, thrifting, vintage clothing has been destigmatized to a certain extent over the last few years. It wasn’t that cool to shop at a secondhand clothing store when I was a teenager, but now anytime I’m in a secondhand store, it’s like it’s jam packed with young people.
And so I think there’s a lot of people who are seeking out secondhand clothing in larger quantities than before. In the New York Times, they just talked about this, where a lot of the sales and a lot of the excitement and shopping is now happening around resale and vintage, to the point where in New York City, the sort of huge flagship stores of both H& M and Banana Republic have a sort of mini boutique within the them that has older clothing, resale items, vintage items from that brand.
And I think that’s like a interesting cultural shift. And with secondhand, it’s interesting to see, I know I just talked about trying to buy clothing online less, but there’s been this explosion in reseller sites like Poshmark or even other sort of older brands. e commerce sites like eBay or Facebook Marketplace even where people are selling their clothes there.
And often if you’re kind of put off by the idea of secondhand clothing, there’s a ton of stuff that has the sort of new with tags logo on it and I think like that’s potentially an avenue. For myself, I’ve also just been trying to be a bit more focused and thoughtful about what I’m buying. So if it is something new, looking at the seams, looking at fabric content, asking myself questions about like, does this garment actually move with my body?
Is there lining? If it’s a pair of dress pants or a blazer, things like that.
Jordan: Last question, when you talk to people who look at the overall state of the fashion industry, including fast fashion and ultra fast fashion, do they see anything changing for the better, or is this a trend that is simply bound to continue because of profit motive, private equity, what people can afford and want to buy?
Monika Warzecha: I think we’re at an interesting point because the McKinsey Institute came out with a report on the state of fashion for 2024 and they came out and said the era of self regulation and fashion is sort of coming to an end. We’re seeing the sort of early parts of legislation in a lot of countries where they’re trying to crack down on on different aspects of fashion waste.
So in Canada, we have, I believe, a bill on textile waste that went to the first reading in 2023. And there was recently a consultation this summer over like how to best tackle the problem of textile waste. And just a couple weeks ago, I think, in California, they signed legislation to combat this issue as well.
And a lot of it puts more onus on the producers to change their ways. There’s a problem with volume and a lot of clothes being made that don’t actually even get sold just because. fashion, you know, often it’s cheaper to make things in greater volumes. I mean, it’s kind of been called fashion’s dirty secret by the Guardian, where it’s something like 10 to 40 percent of garments are made, but they’re not sold.
So companies aren’t really releasing this information. They’re not really upfront about it, but estimates put it between like 8 billion or 60 billion excess garments a year. Yeah. So there’s a so much, so much overproduction. And then dot. often ends up in landfills. A lot of the new legislation that’s coming out in the EU or in the US is kind of trying to focus on producer responsibility for the entire life cycle of the clothes.
So, making them somewhat more responsible for what happens to that sweater, that pills, and Let’s say you donate, but no one wants it, so it ends up in a landfill. Trying to put more money to like recycling of textiles and sorting them, but also kind of involving the producers of the clothing more in the process of what happens to it once it ends up in the trash.
Jordan: I guess we’ll see where it goes from here. It’s fascinating to hear that it’s at a tipping point and Monica, thank you for walking us through all this.
Monika Warzecha: Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me.
Jordan: Monica Warzecha, Digital Editor at The Walrus. That was The Big Story. For more from us, you can head to thebigstorypodcast.
ca. You can also find us on the old Twitter machine, if you still use that. More importantly, though, you can find us at The Big Story on BlueSky. If you want to send us feedback, you can do it by writing an email to hello at The Big Story podcast, or by calling 416 935 5935 and leaving a voicemail. Joe Fish is the lead producer of The Big Story.
Robyn Simon is also a producer here. Mat Keselman handles our sound design. Stefanie Phillips is our showrunner. Mary Jubran is our audience development lead. Diana Keay is our manager of business development. And I’m Jordan Heath Rawlings, your host and your executive producer together for the Frequency Podcast Network, a division of Rogers.
Thanks for listening. We’ve got In This Economy for you tomorrow. We’ve got an update to one of our personal favorite stories for you on Sunday, and we’ll be back with a fresh big story on Monday. We’ll talk then.
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