What Roe v Wade means for Canada

Garvia Bailey It didn’t take long for the protests to begin. Within hours of Roe v. Wade being struck down on on Friday, June 24, in a five four decision by members of the US. Supreme Court, both anti-abortion and pro choice proponents were making their voices heard. One group jubilant, the other angry and dismayed. The 50 year old federal law granting every American citizen the right to an abortion was now a matter for states to decide. But the consequences of the fall of Roe v. Wade went far beyond folks marching in the streets. If you happen to be a pregnant person in the state of Alabama or Kentucky or West Virginia or any number of mostly southern and western states, if you had an abortion scheduled for Monday, on Friday, those plans would become null and void and illegal. Since the repeal of Roe v. Wade, reproductive rights advocates, academics, abortion providers, those on the political left and those on the right have been in full battle mode.

What happens next? How does this play out? Who will suffer? Here in Canada, people also took the streets in solidarity on both sides of the issue. In Canada, the worry isn’t as much over losing the right to abortion. Our laws just don’t work that way. The worry is how our neighbours to the south might start to sway the political and ideological arguments around reproductive rights taking place in our own country. Canada is also poised for an influx of those seeking abortions coming our way from the U.S. What will that mean for an already taxed healthcare system? My guest today has been covering the overturn of Roe v. Wade in her role as an investigative reporter. She’s a Canadian living in the U.S. She’s also someone who has been thinking about this issue in a very personal way.

I’m Garvia Bailey. This is The Big Story. Hilary Beaumont is an investigative journalist covering everything from the climate crisis to reproductive health. She writes for The Guardian, the Narwhal and Al Jazeera. Hello, Hilary. Thanks for being with us today.

Hilary Beaumont Hi Garvia. It’s really nice to speak with you.

Garvia Hilary, I want to start at the very kind of at the beginning, not at the very beginning of Roe v. Wade, but I want to go to your reaction to the news that Roe v. Wade had been overturned. What were your initial thoughts when you heard the news?

Hilary Beaumont For sure, so, as you know, it was kind of expected because Politico had published the leaked decision and we all knew that it was very likely that the Supreme Court would in short order overturn Roe v. Wade. But it still didn’t change how I felt that day. I remember landing in a plane in Denver and seeing the decision pop up on my phone immediately and just feeling like really angry, powerless, revolted, seeing that news. And I remember the man next to me on the plane, saw me reading and tweeting about it, and he said, women deserve the right to choose, and asked me, Where’s your freedom? And so that felt like a nice moment of solidarity, even though it was this moment where I was thinking how devastating this would be for so many people in the U.S.

Garvia One of the things that I found really incredible once the decision came down was how quickly things started to move in the U.S. So I’m wondering if you can give us a sense of what this ban meant as it rolled out from state to state and where we’re at right now.

Hilary Beaumont Absolutely, you’re totally right. Things have been changing extremely quickly. Right away, a lot of states already had trigger bans in place, which meant that immediately abortion became banned or restricted. And then there have been other states that immediately tried to pass bans or restrict abortion. And so as we’re recording July 7th, there are at least nine states where there is currently an abortion ban in effect, and those are mostly in the south and central U.S. And then also you’ve got advocates and lawyers on the ground in those states trying to fight those bans. So things are literally changing hour by hour, day by day. And we also know that likely when all of this settles, there will be between 24 and 26 states in the U.S. that have banned or restricted abortion. So that means half the country.

Garvia So I’m wondering about the ramifications of these mixed bags of laws across the U.S. What does that mean for those seeking abortion, for providers, for pregnant people? What does that look like?

Hilary Beaumont Definitely so I think that if you can think of it from the perspective of someone in one of these states that where it’s currently banned, they’re seeing some of the clinics near them, the remaining clinics near them closing, and maybe they had an appointment and now they no longer have an appointment. They’re going to need to try to seek an abortion elsewhere if they have the means to do that. Like if you’re wealthy and you have the resources, you can tap into a network of abortion funds and volunteers that will help you travel to the nearest state where you can get a procedure, a surgical abortion. There will also be a lot of people who are trying to get abortion pills which are Mifepristone, Misoprostol to people in those states who can no longer access abortion. So there are those options, but for the most part that really is for people who have the resources to access it.

Garvia Right. There is a definite feeling of this splitting the country up into those that can and those that cannot access these sorts of services. So who are the people that will be most affected by the bans that we’re seeing?

Hilary Beaumont From every expert I’ve talked to, it would be black and indigenous people of colour, who will be most impacted. It will be young people especially. And this is because there are large populations of BIPOC folks in the southern states that are most impacted. And these populations also already face barriers to getting contraception, barriers in the healthcare system. And there are also these historic socioeconomic factors that come into play that mean that people can’t just drop hundreds of dollars and go drive to the next state, or immediately have the funds to pay for childcare, for the kids they already have, or afford the cost of a hotel for a couple of nights to travel out of state.

So those are the people who be most impacted also, especially young people we’re talking about like children and teenagers. There are a number of states now where there is no exception to these bans in the case of rape or incest. And so we’re talking about children, teenagers who are victims of rape and incest, who will be impacted by this, who cannot get abortions. There was a case just recently that the Guardian coverage of a ten year old in Ohio who was raped and who had to travel out of state to get an abortion.

Garvia I mean, the stories that you are hearing, that being one of them, they began coming out fast and furiously and you were on the ground reporting those. What were some of those other stories that you began to hear in regards to this ban? What came out and what stories drew you and did you report on during this time?

Hilary Beaumont Most recently, I’ve been really interested in what today’s sanctuary networks will look like for people who need abortions. So I’ve been chatting with folks who are part of these like volunteer networks or nonprofit organizations. And I did talk to one group in Texas that they had had like a huge surge in demand back in September when Texas first implemented their six week ban. But then as soon as the Supreme Court struck down Roe v. Wade, they had a surge of requests also in Oklahoma next door. And so they are just seeing these huge surges in demand.

And I’ve also spoken to folks who have been turned away from abortions in the past, like previous to Roe v. Wade being overturned. So I did speak to one woman in California who she was turned away from an abortion that she needed and she actually carried the pregnancy to term and nearly died in childbirth from eclampsia. She had seizures, blacked out, woke up three days later and had an emergency C-section and her family was born that she might not make it. And I understand from long term studies that have been done into people who’ve been turned away from abortions that this could become more common, that people will be turned away, forced to carry pregnancies to term, and there will be severe effects from that.

Garvia Can we talk about those effects? Because there are going to be ripple effects of Roe v. Wade being overturned that go beyond just the right to a surgical abortion. What are some of those effects that we’re going to be looking at over the next it’s been 50 years. What does the next 50 years look like then?

Hilary Beaumont Yeah, I think anyone you talk to about this cannot predict the severity of this. We don’t know exactly what’s going to happen, but we do have enough evidence to know what happens to people who are turned away. And I spoke to an academic who has been studying this for years, and she did an amazing long term study following a thousand people who tried to access abortions and how their lives diverged when they were able to access abortion versus when they were turned away. And she found that when people are denied abortions, there are devastating economic impacts, including increased eviction rates and lower credit scores. People are also more likely to stay in contact with violent partners when they carry pregnancy, determine they’re more likely to experience severe health effects, like I mentioned, including eclampsia. And actually, of the thousand people the study followed, two women, two young women died in childbirth after they were turned away from abortions.

Garvia I struggle with this just because it is such a you know, as a woman, as someone who is who thinks about as a mother thinking about reproductive health all the time because I have a daughter, it just feels like such a personal affront. Did you feel that way when Roe v. Wade was overturned? Did you have that kind of personal connection to the ban?

Hilary Beaumont Yeah, it immediately made me think about choice and freedom. It made me think about a lot of my friends right now who are pregnant and having kids and how happy I am for them that they are making that choice. But it also made me think about my own abortion that I had in Atlantic Canada and how hard it was for me to even access that. Back then, I was in Halifax, it was 2015, and at this point, Mifepristone and Misoprostol, the abortion pills were not yet legal in Canada. And also, as you probably know, there’s just a lack of access on the East Coast. There are only a few hospitals that will provide abortion, surgical abortions, and because of the overwhelming demand for abortion services and so few places able to provide it, they’re just huge wait lists. And so I remember making the decision very quickly that I needed an abortion.

At the time, I was actually waiting to hear back about a job in Toronto, and I knew that I might have to move within a few weeks. And I asked immediately at a clinic, like, I need an abortion. I need this to happen. Like, yesterday, this needs to happen. And they said, unfortunately, because of the waitlist, you’re going to have to wait three weeks. So I was forced to remain pregnant for much longer than I wanted to be, and it was really, really awful. It impacted my work at the time. I had to turn down assignments. I felt like exhausted and sick and anxious and didn’t know when this is going to happen or if I’d have to go to Toronto and get it or something. Like, I had no idea what was going to happen. And yeah, it was just very devastating at the time to be forced to be in that state against my will. I remember especially sharing that experience with some close friends at the time, and they immediately disclosed that they had also had abortions. And I realized how common this is, even though there’s like this culture of silence around it, especially on the East Coast. And I can imagine in the Deep South as well, people don’t really talk about it, but I realized how normal it is and how also normal it is to have access issues in Canada too.

Garvia Well, the irony of that is that now, in 2022, what we’re going to see, I imagine, as the saying goes, when the US. Sneezes Canada gets a cold. And so with a situation like this, this ban, will we be seeing more of people coming to Canada to access our services? And how do you see this ban affecting us as Canadians here and our own healthcare system?

Hilary Beaumont Yeah, that’s a really good question. So I do think that what you’re going to see is people who are wealthy enough will be able to travel for abortion in the U.S. So there will be some Americans who come over the border to access abortion in Canada. This happened before sort of going the other way. So before the 80s in Canada, before abortion was decriminalized in Canada, there would be folks, Canadians who would go south to America through very established routes to access abortions. And now experts have told me that it’s going to switch the other way. So in places like Michigan, for example, people might have to come over the border to southern Ontario to access the procedure, which they can do. They would just have to pay out of pocket, which can be like $400 or $500 for surgical abortion. And yes, I think that that could carry an increased demand on the Canadian health care system, but I don’t know to what extent.

Garvia Right. It’s all such a wait and see kind of situation that we find ourselves in. And it makes me think about our own fears here in Canada, because I think in you reflecting on your experience, I’m sure there was thousands of women doing the same thing and then thinking about if we should be concerned about abortion rights in this country.

Hilary Beaumont Yeah, I absolutely think we should be. I think that the U.S. case shows that when there’s a united, determined group of conservative activists, that they can and will overturn abortion rights. That’s what they were able to do in the U.S. by advocating for conservative Supreme Court justices being appointed under Trump, and they have won a huge victory for themselves. And I would not be surprised if anti abortion activists in Canada are taking notes, although I’m not sure specifically how they would try to do a similar thing in Canada since it works differently. But I think that we should also just realize that Canada doesn’t just have free and open access to abortion. Like, there are huge areas of Canada that do not have access to abortion where people would have to travel long distances or would not be able to access abortion. And that goes for other sexual and reproductive health care as well, including like, rape kits or HIV care. Like, this is like, something where rural access is a huge issue in Canada.

Garvia What was Canada’s reaction to the Roe v. Wade decision? Just in general, like our general population. What were you hearing?

Hilary Beaumont Yeah, well, immediately I got a message from my mom saying that she saw the decision and found it really heart wrenching, was the word she used. And I think that you saw immediately so many people across Canada feeling outraged. I just saw that all over the Internet. And also politicians in Canada were immediately saying, we’re welcoming Americans who need abortions to come here. And a lot of people who I think especially like the older generation that really had to fight for abortion rights back in the day, I think that a lot of them you’re seeing both in Canada and the U.S. they really are feeling the fight right now and they’re not okay with this and they’re not ready to let it go. They feel like they’re going to fight for those rights for the younger generation now.

Garvia Yeah. And tell me about fighting for those rights both here and in the U.S. What is actually being done on the ground? What are the tussles that are happening to push back on Roe v. Wade?

Hilary Beaumont First of all, I think an important difference now versus, like, back in the day before Roe v. Wade is that Mifepristone and Misoprostol are much more available now than they were back then. So there have also been recent changes in the pandemic that allow Telehealth to become more available. So you could actually see doctors prescribing abortion pills online and then mailing them, and you’ve got, like, some states trying to ban that, but it’s like, very hard to enforce a ban on abortion pills through the mail. You’ve also got activists in Mexico saying that they’re going to mail abortion pills to people in the states. So there’s like kind of a little bit of like a push towards that because abortion pills can be used really safely at home early in pregnancy.

But for those people who need surgical abortions, I think that what you’re seeing mostly is the kind of liberal states that are, especially on the coasts of the U.S. Starting to pass bills as quickly as they possibly can to enshrine abortion rights and make access easier and change legal liability standards. And also in some cases, states are putting their own government funded abortion funds in place. So you’ve kind of got these networks that are establishing themselves saying like, we will be sanctuary states for folks who need it. There are still going to be major access issues. But I think those are some at least like encouraging things that are happening.

Garvia Yeah, because when we talk about it being abortion, being illegal, I think a lot of people think what exactly does that mean? Does the rule of law fall on a pregnant person if they’re found out to have had an abortion? Does it fall on the shoulders of the practitioner or those who have supplied, like you said, medical abortion pills? What does that illegality look like?

Hilary Beaumont So I think that the Supreme Court decision basically kicked this back to the states, right? So each state gets to decide what their abortion rules are going to be. And so, for example, in Texas you have a six week ban and you also have this civil law that allows anyone to sue any person who is aiding someone and getting an abortion. So that would be like this civil process that is really scary, obviously, but it’s kind of state by state you’re seeing a lot of abortion clinics closing in these states because they know that their doctors no longer have the right, the legal right, to provide these abortions. And so really what it ends up being is like this major access issue of these abortion deserts where you no longer have clinics that are available to people. So that’s mainly how it’s becoming criminalized that there are no longer providers that can legally do those procedures or prescribe abortion pills.

Garvia For those who have been anti-abortion, this is a massive victory. So I’m wondering what the next fight on the horizon is going to be in reproductive health now that this door has been swung open?

Hilary Beaumont Absolutely. That’s such an important question. I think that because there is a conservative dominated Supreme Court at this point, a lot of people are rightly worried that there are a number of things that are under threat all of a sudden, and that includes same sex marriage in the U.S. Contraception, the right to contraception. I think a lot of people are also worried, like on a local level about sex education and trans rights as well. I think that having a conservative dominated Supreme Court suddenly means that these rights can all be overturned and people are right to be really afraid of that.

Garvia You are on the ground, you’re speaking with people. I just wonder about those real life feelings that are resonating with you as you speak to people impacted by the overturn of Roe v. Wade. Is it a feeling of defeat or is it sadness? Is it anger? What are you seeing and what are you feeling from those deeply affected?

Hilary Beaumont More than ever, I’m hearing from people that they want to speak out about their own abortion stories. Like, I do remember talking to that woman who nearly died in childbirth and how she wanted to speak up about this now, because she realizes that her story can actually change things and de-stigmatize this conversation. And it’s also the reason that I wanted to share my own story, because it’s something where if you feel that there’s a culture of silence around something, then people don’t realize how normalized this is. I think abortion is like, a very normal thing in our society. We just never talk about it. And so what I’m hearing from people, for the most part, is that they want to talk more openly about this, and they also want to fight back against these very restrictive laws. I think that I’ve also heard from people that they’re finding hope thinking back to the civil rights movement and the idea that you can have a broad solidarity across a lot of different groups fighting for the same human rights. So, yeah, I am asking people in almost every interview, like, where do you find hope in this? And some people are saying that they’re, like, they’re devastated and they don’t see hope, and others are saying, like, we need to remember previous movements and previous struggles that were successful.

Garvia Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for speaking with us today, Hilary.

Hilary Beaumont Of course. Thank you for having me. And thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk about this.

Garvia That was The Big Story, for more, head to thebigstorypodcast.ca. Find us on Twitter at @TheBigStoryFPN, talk to us anytime via email [click here!]. And of course, you can call us anytime, 416-935-5935. If you’re able to review this podcast, please do so. We’d be happy to hear from you. All right, sounds good. I’m Garvia Bailey, sitting in for Jordan Heath-Rawlings this week. We’ll talk tomorrow.

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