In Quebec’s election, a rising progressive party and a new vision of sovereignty

Jordan Hey, it’s Jordan. Before we take you to Quebec today for an in-depth look at the provincial election, I thought I’d tell tell you why we are not doing an episode focusing on the horrific stabbings in Saskatchewan. When we began this project four years ago, our goal was to take you outside of the news cycle, to provide context and answers and thoughtful analysis, and to only bring you the news when there was a way to understand it. And we’ll do that in the case of this story, as soon as we can. But right now, pieces are still moving, people are sheltering in place, and any episode we recorded would be out of date and possibly totally irrelevant by the time you heard it. It turns out podcasts, not great at breaking news.

If you want up to the minute news on this file, please visit our friends at City News, either on TV, on the radio, or@citynews.com they have boots on the ground in the province right now chasing updates. Meanwhile, until we tell that story, we’ll focus on what we do best.

One of my first politically engaged memories is watching the results roll in the Quebec referendum on separation. Growing up, my family split our time between Ontario and Quebec, so the results were practical and personal to us. But even if they weren’t, they still would have felt urgent. I remember that was when I saw real political anger for the first time. I thought about what it meant to live in a country where a whole bunch of people wanted out. As the decades passed, the rest of Canada mostly moved on from fears of Quebec separatism. Quebec, as you may imagine, did not. At least not completely. And so now, in a provincial election on October 3, Quebecers will have three different visions of sovereignty on the ballot.

One from the current government that proposes sovereignty within Canada, one that is more of the traditional hardline version that is still being pushed by a party that is no longer relevant. And one other new, interesting vision of a sovereign Quebec. A vision in which Quebec is not even the only sovereign nation attached to this country. So what does that future of La Belle Province look like? Who wants to take it there? And do they have a shot?

Jordan I’m Jordan Heath Rawlings. This is the big story. Lisa Fitterman has worked for newspapers across Canada and the world as a reporter, editor, and columnist. She wrote this piece on one man’s vision for a new Quebec in the Walrus. Hello, Lisa.

Lisa Fitterman Hello, Jordan.

Jordan Thanks for joining us.

Lisa Fitterman Thank you for inviting me on.

Jordan Well, as this campaign begins, for those of us outside of Ontario, and maybe even for the non-politically inclined Quebecers, I’d just first like to know, what do we need to know about it? Is this a walk in the park for the current government?

Lisa Fitterman Yes, it is really a walk in the park for the Coalition Avenir Québec. The question is, how big a majority really is the party going to win,

Jordan And who’s fighting them for that majority? Who are the contenders in this election?

Lisa Fitterman I don’t think it’s a fight for the majority so much as it’s a fight for second place. And the contenders are the Liberals the Provincial Liberal Party Quebec Solidaire, which is the Leftwing Party, the Provincial Conservative Party, which was just founded and the Parti Quebecois.

Jordan Let’s talk about the party, Quebecois, just for a second before we move on, because this was once an incredibly strong party in Quebec. You just listed them fifth. What happened?

Lisa Fitterman Okay, in effect, Francois Legault, the Premier, took the wind out of the particular sales because he’s offering sovereignty without separation to voters, which is something that seems to make them more comfortable.

Jordan Now, in terms of the two contenders, the Liberals have been a force in Quebec politics for forever. But you recently focused on the leader of Quebec Solidaire. Maybe just tell us about him. First of all, introduce us.

Lisa Fitterman Well, Gabrielle Nadeau DuBois was a leader in the student strikes that are known as the Maple Spring Quebec’s. Maple Spring ten years ago. And he really impressed a lot of people then with his ability to think on his feet. Present arguments that were cogent and stick to his principles, and now he is leading the province’s unapologetically left wing party based on those same principles.

Jordan Before we get to sovereignty, tell me about those left wing principles and how progressive this party is.

Lisa Fitterman Quebec Solidaire was founded because members of the party Becaus, were not happy with the direction the party had taken under Lucien Bouchard and Jacques Parizeau. They believe in universal health care. They believe in affordable housing. They’re environmentalists. They want to ensure that senior citizens are able to remain in their homes for as long as possible while receiving the care that they require from the government. Those are the kind of principles the party is running under.

Jordan And you mentioned they’re sort of neck and neck with the Liberals. How close is that race? And did people in Quebec expect it to be this close by this election?

Jordan You know, it’s not clear. The polls are now saying that the Liberals have inched up a few points. But people I’ve known for a long time who never voted Quebec Solidaire in their lives, never thought that they would be voting left wing, have come up to me this week and said, I’m voting Quebec Solidaire because I don’t want to vote for the Liberals, and I don’t know where else to go, and I want a stronger opposition.

Jordan I wonder and again, this is coming from someone who doesn’t spend a lot of time in Quebec, though I have spent some. I wonder how much of this newfound support for a progressive party can be attributed to some of the divisive policies of the last few years in Quebec. And here I’m thinking specifically, and maybe you can elaborate about two of them, one about language and one in regards to religious garments.

Lisa Fitterman Okay. Well. Certainly with regard to religious garments and the law that was introduced by the government has proved divisive for the province in terms of there are a lot of people in Quebec who wear hijabs and turbans. And they are not allowed to wear their religious symbols at work if they are considered to be working for the public service. Which has been expanded to include the public education system. The Quebec Solidaire is absolutely against this, and they voted against the bill in the provincial National Assembly. So are the Liberals. But the liberals have been very wishy washy in terms of taking stances on another very divisive bill, bill 96, which is an expansion of the French language protections in the province. And a lot of people are very, very unhappy.

Jordan How is the coalition avenue to Quebec dealing with that backlash? Or is their support strong enough that they don’t have to worry about?

Lisa Fitterman Consider that the government does not have a single seat in Montreal. Their support is outside of the metropolitan areas, and so they don’t really care about how people here are feeling about it. That said, a decision in the Quebec Superior Court recently ruled that one of the provisions which required midsize businesses to provide translation at their own expense for every kind of document or email, etc. That it produced, would have to be done at their own expense. And it was required that the government said, okay, we’ll go back and think about it. So that’s what they’re doing right now.

Jordan Now I want to talk about the elephant in the room, I guess, in this election, which is that Gabrielle Nadeau DuBois and Quebec Solidaire are, I guess, technically a sovereignist party. Can you explain how that works?

Lisa Fitterman It’s not a traditionally sovereigntist way of doing things. They believe that Quebec should be its own country. It’s not something that is coming to the fore in this election. They don’t go around saying, we want Quebec to separate. That is not what they’re running on right now. And the kind of country that they envision is one that is more inclusive. I think that was the reason I wanted to write the story about Gabrielle Nadeau in the first place. The vision of including First Nations peoples, of including people who aren’t white, Catholic, francophones, people of the land in a country. It’s like a no brainer for him. During our first interview, I asked him who he saw in an independent Quebec, and he just looked at me as if I was crazy and said, well, everyone who lives in the province, they’re all Quebec.

Jordan What drew you to him as a profile subject? And how did that come through when you spoke with him and spent time with him. I think that was his vision of an independent Quebec drew me to him, but the first thing that I noticed about him was how he really got on the Premier’s nerves. He was the one person in the National Assembly who could get a rise out of him, make him react. And I thought, that’s really interesting. It was over Bill 21, and I’m sure you remember the teacher in Chelsea, Quebec, who was, in effect, fired from her job because she wore a hijab, and he stood up and accused Legault of being a Duplexi, the Premier who presided over the darkest period in Quebec’s history. And he said that Quebec needs people who are dedicated to their jobs and passionate about their jobs, no matter if they wear a hijab or is it a turban or nothing on their heads or any religious symbols at all. So I just thought that’s really interesting.

Jordan I’m fascinated by this idea of Quebec is an independent nation alongside other First Nations. But what I wonder is, you mentioned they’re not making it a huge issue in the campaign. Do we have any idea how many Quebecers are still even interested in separating from Canada? I feel like every time it’s raised as a federal issue, we’re kind of assured, like, no, it’s settled and it’s done.

Lisa Fitterman Okay. It’ll never go away. It’s an issue that’s here for a long time, and in effect, about a third of Quebec would vote to separate. A third would vote no, and a third want to go down the middle, down that middle, where they can have sovereignty without having to go through a referendum and separation.

Jordan I’m really surprised by that, because, as I say, I think for people outside of Quebec, this is no longer an issue. At least certainly not to the degree it was 15, 20 years ago or longer ago than that, when we were glued to the TV watching votes roll in.

Lisa Fitterman Yeah, but that is partially due to how skillfully Legault has navigated this potential minefield and has basically shown Quebecers that you can have your cake and eat it too. Although I wonder how long that will go on for.

Jordan Will that at some point become an issue between the two men, between Nadeau Dubois and Legault? The different visions of sovereignty you mentioned, they’re not really hard peddling it now, but it seems like the kind of thing Quebecers would be interested in during a campaign.

Lisa Fitterman You know, Quebecers really aren’t interested in this during the campaign, which is why you see Party Quebecois trailing way behind it now. The polls are showing that they could eke out one seat in the election, which is pretty pitiful.

Jordan Well, let’s talk about the electorate itself, then. If Lego is to lose voters, and if Quebec solidaire is to jump over the liberals and form opposition, who are we talking about? What is Nadeau Dubois target audience, and how is he trying to pull them away from CAQ or the Liberals.

Lisa Fitterman I think that first of all, his base is mostly young people in working class areas of metropolitan areas like Montreal in Quebec. He will draw from senior citizens who are unhappy with the choices they have with the CAQ and the Liberals. And he will draw perhaps in areas like I went to see him outside of the Montreal area in Ramouski, and there it’s been a party Quebecois stronghold for 25 years and the CAQ could be very well poised to take that riding. Legault’s weakness, if there is a weakness, is in his handling of the senior’s care homes during the pandemic and the thousands upon thousands of deaths that occurred there and in the metropolitan areas where Quebec Solidaire has not penetrated. Like, I live in the kind of south central area of the city and there’s a great chance here for Quebec solidaire to make enrols.

Jordan I realize I haven’t asked you much, if anything, about the liberals and all this. Why is that? Is there anything that stands out about the liberals in this election?

Lisa Fitterman I think the liberals are trying to find a footing and reisan detra after being for so long the standard bearers for federalism in the province and under the current leader. They’ve just taken many missteps that have left people with the bad taste voters who have voted for them in the past without even thinking, with a bad taste in their mouths. There has been a Anglo Rights Party that has come out of this and a Montreal Rights Party that has also come out of the liberals handling of Bill 96. And there are some wonderful politicians coming up within the ranks of the Liberal Party, but they’re still young and so people really are looking for a stronger opposition.

Jordan The campaign only began last week. As we move into the next couple of weeks of it, what will you be looking for to get a sense of if the landscape will change?

Lisa Fitterman At this point, I’m still looking at what people are saying on the street. I’ll be reading the papers outside of Montreal, outside of Quebec City. I’ll be following the campaign in Wmuski and in the Gas Bay in the Eastern Townships. I want to see what the arguments are out there and how people are responding to the promises of Lego and the Liberals and Quebec solidaire. At this point, the margins are still very much up in the air. Those regions you just mentioned, are those the typical regions that decide Quebec provincial election or is that different? It is the regions that decide the election. It’s weighted that way. It’s kind of like the US. You have much more sparsely populated areas that hold a great amount of power.

Jordan Lisa, thank you so much for this. And I guess we’ll all watch those areas for the next little while. Lisa Fitterman Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me on.

Jordan Lisa Fitterman writing in the walrus. That was the big story. For more head to the bigstorypodcast CA. As I mentioned off the top, if you need breaking news out of Saskatchewan because the situation is still developing, please go to CityNews.com. You can find us on Twitter at thebigstory FPN. You can talk to us anytime via email. Hello at thebigstorypodcast CA. And of course, you can find this podcast wherever you get them or on your smart speaker by saying, play the Big Story podcast. Thanks for listening. I’m Jordan Heathrowlings. We’ll talk tomorrow.